47 Comments on “Bishop Barron on Gay Marriage & the Breakdown of Moral Argument”

  1. The red flag of discrimination goes up when someone makes a moral argument period, when it is in response to something amoral such as homosexuality. The only possible moral argument in opposition to marriage equality is “my imaginary sky daddy doesn’t like it because of reasons”. There is no (real)victim of gay marriage.

  2. Of course, the biggest failure has been the majority of bishops of my Catholic faith. Few speaking out, even fewer actually more interested in leading the flock as a bishop, rather than a politician.

    Thank *you*, for speaking out.

    I have found the hate speech to be nearly always from the proponents and partakers of sinful behavior. They have no intelligent argument and then remove themselves from any meaningful, responsible dialogue … by name-calling, threats, and even assaultive behavior.
    Btw, Canada does not have the 1st Amendment. There is no "Freedom of Speech" there! More and more governments and organizations around the world are criminalizing freedom of speech, and silencing those on a quest for what is good for others, as "hate" speech, when in truth, it is the exact opposite! Proof that our society no longer recognizes "love'' when they see it.

  3. Thanks Bishop, wanted to thrown into the mix of your discussion a different collective angle. Definitely it is one of the many issues that rise up to the sign of the times category. All sin is achieving a climax of magnified proportions. The human fallen condition, on a collective scale, is constellating its worst of all marriage with sin the idol in their lives. Even the Saint is pushed to his or her limits, even the priest and ministers are pushed to the edge. The concept of Adam and Eve and the goal to populate is ending as this age reaches the last souls left in the guf or the hall of souls. God’s plan for man since the Garden of Eden is coming to the end of the age and eternal life is in the horizon. Eternal life calls for all souls “who have made it through those day”, “will be clothed in white garments”. The goal will no longer be to the need to populate the Earth and multiply. The sex drive is at the end of its age. Men are driven to find love in other men as well as women, the Eve is unnaturally driven to not attract properly, it is a subconscious collective archetypal evil that is constellating. All sin is headed toward its worst expression never before seen by mankind. This is the Huge Red Dragon and it’s marriage with Babylon. On the good opposite side it is the marriage of Heaven and Earth. Christ surely came to cause division and it is taking place before your very eyes.

  4. bishop stupid coming out of the closet is just as useful as rubbing a dogs nose in its own shit. this issue is private and should not be forced on unwilling bystanders.. stupid is as stupid odse.

  5. How about a bit of soul searching for us Christians on excoriating LGBT human beings a “perverts” and “degenerate” for 100’s of years? Is it only the Left who attack the character of their opponents vs have a moral argument?

  6. Hello Bishop! I'm gay and Catholic myself and am curious about what you have to say about the law in reference to Fruit of the Spirit. If a loving heterosexual or homosexual relationship does not defile those principles then the marriage of any class should not even be considered by way of Law but of Spirit. The legalization is strictly an American civil issue. So then how can one say that gay marriage legalization should not follow based on these specific principles Paul did write about?

  7. Well, I'm gay. I am catholic. I feel that god does love me! My wife and I even waited 6 years until we got married. We strongly believe in trinity love! Gay marriage is marriage. Our god made me this way and as long as I walk with god only he can judge me.

  8. "Not everything a decent person does or wants is morally right…we sentimentalize the issue." Feels matter most in this age of self-referring relativity.

  9. "Not everything a decent person does or wants is morally right…we sentimentalize the issue." Feels matter most in this age of self-referring relativity.

  10. We have be able to say what is truth and untruth. Basically put Jesus is the truth. Political correctness may present itself as virtuous, but nearly all of the time it seeks to reverse truth. God gave us free will and he doesn't force us to live in truth whereas political correctness uses the law to penalize in one way or another if you disagree with an illusory truth . Therefore the unseen force behind PC is fear which is not of God therefore not of truth . When one can name the fear one can see what is true and what isn't .

  11. In theory, right is right and wrong is wrong no matter how many people agree with it. But in practice, most of our moral information comes from society. Most of the knowledge we have about what is right or wrong come from our parents, our peers, our teachers, our pastors, etc. If you believe that the Bible or the Koran is the unique source of moral truth, you believe this because you have heard it from somebody. Nobody in 2019 can have obtained his knowledge directly from God, because if God spoke to him, he would check in to a psychiatric unit and believe his mind had deceived him. We have no way to ascertain moral truths without some deference to the beliefs of others. If everyone says killing is wrong, that to me is good evidence that killing is wrong. Likewise, if everyone agrees that gay marriage is right, who am I to say that it is wrong? It is true that I have a moral conscience that provides some information on certain subjects, but it does not provide me any information about homosexuality. It seems like an unusual behavior but does not strike my conscience the same way killing does. Certainly unusual does not mean wrong. Furthermore, it is frequently the case that my own conscience will deceive me and have me believe things are justifiable when they are not or vice versa. For example if I am thinking of telling a lie, I sometimes will convince myself that it is not really a lie, and that in some twisted way it is a version of the truth. So the conscience is inherently untrustworthy. As a practical guiding principle, I think it is useful to rely on consensus.

  12. Are Christians open to being convinced that gay marriage "could" be right? Are proponents of gay marriage open to being convinced that gay marriage is wrong? No. Both sides are way beyond those questions. What about laws against gay sex? What about the Boys Scouts having openly gay scouts or scout leaders? Oddly, gay priests have been acceptable, as long as they were not sexually active, I suppose. Why is it OK for a politician to accept his gay son, but not OK for the gay son to marry his boyfriend?

  13. There are only two genders and marriage is ONLY between ONE man and ONE woman.., PERIOD!!! they only have a legal contract between themselves, the state and satan.. But NOT a marriage…
    Romans 1:18-32

  14. WELL my so and so is a drugged up, alcoholic pedophile.. he is a good person, so should we also support all his behaviors and give them parades..??

  15. 1 Corinthians 6 9-10
    * Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes* nor sodomites
    nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

  16. I think what Bishop Barron says here could also be applied to the issue of abortion in the USA. Many, if not most people in the pro-choice crowd seem to be incapable of even articulating one of the arguments that pro-lifers make against abortion. They don't seem to understand why pro-lifers think that abortion is bad. To them, anyone who disagrees with their views is a regressive, misogynistic, religious fanatic who just wants to oppress women; nevermind the fact that there are feminist pro-lifers, LGBT pro-lifers, and atheist pro-lifers.

  17. Here I am, thinking you're going to give a diatribe on gay marriage. Instead, you gave a well thought, lucid thesis on moral argument (using the issue of gay marriage as a point of reference). Well done, your eminence!

  18. Puke Bishop Barron. There is such thing as Absolute truth and that excludes gay marrige as a good morally acceptable behavior. Shame to have you as a guiding scholar of the church.

  19. The left doesn't care what your argument is; if what you say does disagree in the slightest then you're wrong and we shall have you condemned as a hater.

  20. Talk about fog and obfuscation. What do you mean when you say someone “is a gay person”? Is this a permanent state for such a person? What’s a “bisexual”? Why is it that only in the realm of sexual behavior do we use such a permanent and definitive label on persons. Not very charitable.

  21. So is Barron for or against gay marriage? Just doing the soft-shoe shuffle means the laity remains in confusion. Or is that the whole _modus operandi_?

  22. Your excellency, I'd like to show my agreement with your argument against the polls on the moral issues. What's ridiculous with the word "sexual minority" is that, while the morality has NOTHING to do with the popular mindsets, homosexuals deceitfully claim as if they were real minorities like those of ethnic, linguistic, or religious minorities etc. Sure, only 1% of the whole population is said to be homosexuals, yet the word itself is oxymoron.
    Sadly, even abortion is discussed with the polls on who thinks the infanticide is okay or not, while murder can never be justified. Your voice should be cited to warn that we must follow what's objectively moral regardless of "popularity." God bless you, Amen!

  23. We talk past each other on moral issues… continuous to talk past others on moral issues.

    There might be valid moral arguments to be made… does not present a single one.
    He could've made the same video about slavery and it would not have significant impact on the point he's making. Opinion polls be damned. Maybe the people who support slavery are making valid moral points. Shame on the bigots for having preconceived notions against slavery.

  24. You will never get away from the word Abomination! Three (3) billion Bibles world wide! It will Ring in your ears forevermore! Shàlom✡️🇺🇸🕎✝️

  25. I get a little annoyed about an institution so riddled with pedophiles (and its lack of appropriate action) talking about the immorality homosexuals starting a life together. Call me old fashioned, but I just think it terribly hypocritical.

  26. Gay and Lesbian Marriages unfortunately are part of Life in
    Society today.We also have
    Bisexuals and Transsexuals
    as well.We also have those Queers
    who have it away with Animals.
    They are Perverts.I feel sorry for
    those Animals,really sorry.What is
    this World coming to.You have
    heard of UFO’s and Aliens.I not
    surprised if the Aliens are having
    it away with us Humans.
    We do not know what is going on
    in this World of ours.
    You have heard of the saying:-,
    What can happen,will happen.
    I believe Mankind will be living
    on the Planets in our Solar System.
    (It will happen),❤️.

  27. Bishop Barron is excruciatingly difficult to listen to. It seems as if it's impossible for him to come out and just state a Catholic truth. He and the others, if they still believe in Church teaching, are afraid to uphold it. To those who are that way, I call you cowards and you are walking very near the path of Judas. Our Lord said : He who denies me before men I shall deny before God.

  28. The goal shouldn't be right and wrong. Catholics nor Muslims nor Vegans or any other group aren't there to pass judgement. Everyone does it a lot, it's a human tendency yet it's not okay in a cooperative advanced society. It should be bring your best points have the discussion/argument and try to promote understanding. Don't expect to walk away in agreement, manage yourselves. Love your neighbors, don't judge or condemn them as right or wrong. Be good to others, condemn wrong actions and behaviors. Who cares if gays marry, does it affect you? no. Do you need to allow gay marriage in Catholic church? Absolutely NOT. Do you need to judge those who don't get married or who marry a non Catholic? No. Most will, but it's not what God wants or what people including those judging benefit from. How do we find common ground on what's wrong action? Bring our points and have arguments/discussions promoting understanding. not seeking right or wrong.
    Canada suffers from ponderous pomposity. I don't like or dislike gay marriage, I dont care. Why should I? I'm not qualified to pass judgement on others, that's for Jesus to do. Me, I'm nice to those around me, supportive, and I enforce the same boundaries for gay as for not gay. I find transgender abhorrent, but I won't treat them badly because of it. I dont allow people to crap on me because of my religion, which in Canada is a point of contention. I treat others how I as a straight bacon eating Catholic want to be treated by every gay muslim or athiest. with dignity and respect.

  29. not member of the catholic church has no right to moral conversations at all. Wars, murders, torture, false imprisonment, lies, cover-ups, Child molestation, raping little boys, these are just a few of the churches crimes against humanity. Nobody in their right mind believes there is anything moral about catholics.

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