8 Comments on “What's the Big Deal with Gay Marriage?”
Excellent and thought out. Our identity is so much more important than a focus on one thing.
Thanks for bringing clarity to the discussion. By offering all of us a place to find our identity in our Dad, we don't stand in condemnation over one another (Jesus doesn't offer us condemnation), but at the same time we create space to dialogue and experience God's story together and live our lives out of our new identity. Really helpful Caesar!
Hey Caesar, thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts on this. I love your heart for connecting with people and loving as Christ. I'm guessing it's because this is a 6 min snippet which can't really do this topic justice, but I feel like there is a gap in your view of homosexuality in that you make the argument that a gay persons actions do not define them. You compare that to simple day to day activities you might partake in (choosing what to drive, getting mad, having a drink), but I don't think any of those actually compare to being gay.
For homosexual people (based on reading their opinions and having some that are friends), their sexuality absolutely defines them. That is the reason the conversation is so heated and everything becomes personal so quickly. Most gay people will tell you that they had no choice in their orientation and it is a core component of their identity that they have learned to embrace and express. When Christians tell them "this is just an action like any other action" or "this is just a sin like any other sin" in an attempt to normalize it with heterosexual sin struggles, it belittles them and makes them feel like we are diminishing something that they can't change about themselves.
My experience has been that the "you just need to change behavior, I just need to change behavior, we're all in this together" witness falls flat on it's face and offends gay people. Reaching out in love is critical. Not elevating homosexuality when the churches is destroying itself form the inside out with greed, adultery and so on, is crucial. But I don't think addressing homosexuality is the same as saying it's just a decision people are making. Whether it's sin or science (I happen to think it's those combined), there is something about the issue of homosexuality that is much deeper than a person just choosing to act a certain way. It is at it's core a deep issue of identity and feeling like they would need to deny who they are to accept Christian ideology.
Thanks again for putting yourself out there on a topic that as you said is very heated. The only way we can even have the conversation is with grace and love and I hope this video spurs on that kind of dialogue to the glory of God.
Great thoughts Caesar! I love how you frame the conversation in the language of identity: who are we? What defines us? Are we what we do or don't do? I wish more of us would approach all of these topics and our sin struggles in light of our primary identity as God's image bearers. Like your friend Angela says, "default to love as our core being and value."
And as you say, despite hot debate even among wavering Christians, it is possible to model the seeming paradox of Jesus' love of loving people and sinners while at the same time calling for sinners to repent and live holy in light of that divine love. Like Jesus' interaction with the woman caught in adultery.
In the end for me it all comes down to LOVE, the issue is how all of us begin to redefine love in our own terms and perspective. If we are His image bearers, then we must bear the image He desires, the one that most glorifies Him and honors Him.
Choices identifies who we are. Choices originate from the free will of life we have,so choosing to do wrong thing as a choice will also identify whom we are ,even before God.My opinion bro.
Hi Im new to this site and its interesting how you have tried to help people look at who they are by there identity . there are very clear defining issues that lay here one to the believer and another to an unbeliever . The word of God clearly shows us as believers It is because of Jesus our identity is in him therefore it is in this truth and knowledge of knowing how much God loves us through the death of Christ and in him all believers have there identity in this truth It is our belief system is what defines a persons identity and this will always result in there actions Jesus clearly tells us that if we are true followers of him them we must go and SIN no more and if we are to repent then he is just to forgive us But then We are to SIN no more In christ we are have been set free from the Law of sin and death. We also know that there is an enemy who try to kill steal and destroy and we are to put on our full armour Ephesians 6v10-17 we must also understand that the things of God is spirit and our warfare is not against flesh and blood Sid Roth has a great show called The Supernatural where this is about real ordinary people sharing there life before they were saved and how there lives has been transform through the power of the Holy Spirit God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes on him CHRIST JESUS shall be set free and have ever lasting life It isn't that you or I Judge but its the word of God that gives us very clear instructions if we are to live in the true power of Holy Spirit then we must live by the spirit seeking Gods word and his righteousness and then all these things shall be added Deuteronomy 28 V 1-14 (old testament amplified version and then if you read the rest the lord clearly says about curses etc Colossians 2 (New Testament) The Law was set to convict people of there sin before Christ but is has been done away because we as believers live by Gods Grace and it is by his Grace we are saved in Christ therefore if anyone accepts Jesus into there lives all things are passed away and behold all things have been made new It is your Spirit that has be born again not your flesh which is why we need to renew our minds with the power of the word of God its is only then when the Holy spirit gives you revelation Knowledge our lives start to change because we learn to know Gods heart and his will and purposes for our lives.
Stay Blessed in Christ
I think dismissing sexual orientation as a "choice" is weird, dangerous, and wrong. And your willingness to compartmentalize homosexuality as a "choice" that you're in turn willing to "overlook" while you love the "whole" person is just a rationalization of your… well, I won't say hate, because I do not know you. I'll say your "intense disappointment over homosexuality".
To use your metaphor from, the video, I've known since I was 3 that I was a Chevrolet guy. And I'm rather confident that gay people are also made that way. By our own God, no less.
If that causes you consternation because it would mean that God would create someone wired "wrong", then you need to revisit whether homosexuality is indeed "wrong". Citing a few sentences of ancient Jewish tribal lore, taken – keep in mind – from a Book (Leviticus) you selectively ignore more than 75% of as irrelevant in today's world, just won't do it. And if it were important, Jesus was around for 30+ years, you'd think he would have mentioned it. Perhaps at the Mount. Instead, he commanded you to love your neighbor. And not just the easy parts. For if you unconditionally loved only someone easy to love, what really have you done? Nothing. Same as if you only love the easy parts of a person, what have you really done?
Although what we do may not define who we are, it's clear from the Bible that what we do does affect our eternity. Willful sexual sin leads to separation from God. This should be spoken clearly and with love.
Excellent and thought out. Our identity is so much more important than a focus on one thing.
Thanks for bringing clarity to the discussion. By offering all of us a place to find our identity in our Dad, we don't stand in condemnation over one another (Jesus doesn't offer us condemnation), but at the same time we create space to dialogue and experience God's story together and live our lives out of our new identity. Really helpful Caesar!
Hey Caesar, thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts on this. I love your heart for connecting with people and loving as Christ. I'm guessing it's because this is a 6 min snippet which can't really do this topic justice, but I feel like there is a gap in your view of homosexuality in that you make the argument that a gay persons actions do not define them. You compare that to simple day to day activities you might partake in (choosing what to drive, getting mad, having a drink), but I don't think any of those actually compare to being gay.
For homosexual people (based on reading their opinions and having some that are friends), their sexuality absolutely defines them. That is the reason the conversation is so heated and everything becomes personal so quickly. Most gay people will tell you that they had no choice in their orientation and it is a core component of their identity that they have learned to embrace and express. When Christians tell them "this is just an action like any other action" or "this is just a sin like any other sin" in an attempt to normalize it with heterosexual sin struggles, it belittles them and makes them feel like we are diminishing something that they can't change about themselves.
My experience has been that the "you just need to change behavior, I just need to change behavior, we're all in this together" witness falls flat on it's face and offends gay people. Reaching out in love is critical. Not elevating homosexuality when the churches is destroying itself form the inside out with greed, adultery and so on, is crucial. But I don't think addressing homosexuality is the same as saying it's just a decision people are making. Whether it's sin or science (I happen to think it's those combined), there is something about the issue of homosexuality that is much deeper than a person just choosing to act a certain way. It is at it's core a deep issue of identity and feeling like they would need to deny who they are to accept Christian ideology.
Thanks again for putting yourself out there on a topic that as you said is very heated. The only way we can even have the conversation is with grace and love and I hope this video spurs on that kind of dialogue to the glory of God.
Great thoughts Caesar! I love how you frame the conversation in the language of identity: who are we? What defines us? Are we what we do or don't do? I wish more of us would approach all of these topics and our sin struggles in light of our primary identity as God's image bearers. Like your friend Angela says, "default to love as our core being and value."
And as you say, despite hot debate even among wavering Christians, it is possible to model the seeming paradox of Jesus' love of loving people and sinners while at the same time calling for sinners to repent and live holy in light of that divine love. Like Jesus' interaction with the woman caught in adultery.
In the end for me it all comes down to LOVE, the issue is how all of us begin to redefine love in our own terms and perspective. If we are His image bearers, then we must bear the image He desires, the one that most glorifies Him and honors Him.
Choices identifies who we are. Choices originate from the free will of life we have,so choosing to do wrong thing as a choice will also identify whom we are ,even before God.My opinion bro.
Hi Im new to this site and its interesting how you have tried to help people look at who they are by there identity . there are very clear defining issues that lay here one to the believer and another to an unbeliever . The word of God clearly shows us as believers It is because of Jesus our identity is in him therefore it is in this truth and knowledge of knowing how much God loves us through the death of Christ and in him all believers have there identity in this truth
It is our belief system is what defines a persons identity and this will always result in there actions
Jesus clearly tells us that if we are true followers of him them we must go and SIN no more and if we are to repent then he is just to forgive us But then We are to SIN no more
In christ we are have been set free from the Law of sin and death.
We also know that there is an enemy who try to kill steal and destroy and we are to put on our full armour Ephesians 6v10-17 we must also understand that the things of God is spirit and our warfare is not against flesh and blood
Sid Roth has a great show called The Supernatural where this is about real ordinary people sharing there life before they were saved and how there lives has been transform through the power of the Holy Spirit
God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes on him CHRIST JESUS shall be set free and have ever lasting life
It isn't that you or I Judge but its the word of God that gives us very clear instructions
if we are to live in the true power of Holy Spirit then we must live by the spirit seeking Gods word and his righteousness and then all these things shall be added
Deuteronomy 28 V 1-14 (old testament amplified version
and then if you read the rest the lord clearly says about curses etc
Colossians 2 (New Testament)
The Law was set to convict people of there sin before Christ
but is has been done away because we as believers live by Gods Grace and it is by his Grace we are saved in Christ
therefore if anyone accepts Jesus into there lives all things are passed away and behold all things have been made new
It is your Spirit that has be born again not your flesh which is why we need to renew our minds with the power of the word of God
its is only then when the Holy spirit gives you revelation Knowledge our lives start to change because we learn to know Gods heart and his will and purposes for our lives.
Stay Blessed in Christ
I think dismissing sexual orientation as a "choice" is weird, dangerous, and wrong. And your willingness to compartmentalize homosexuality as a "choice" that you're in turn willing to "overlook" while you love the "whole" person is just a rationalization of your… well, I won't say hate, because I do not know you. I'll say your "intense disappointment over homosexuality".
To use your metaphor from, the video, I've known since I was 3 that I was a Chevrolet guy. And I'm rather confident that gay people are also made that way. By our own God, no less.
If that causes you consternation because it would mean that God would create someone wired "wrong", then you need to revisit whether homosexuality is indeed "wrong". Citing a few sentences of ancient Jewish tribal lore, taken – keep in mind – from a Book (Leviticus) you selectively ignore more than 75% of as irrelevant in today's world, just won't do it. And if it were important, Jesus was around for 30+ years, you'd think he would have mentioned it. Perhaps at the Mount. Instead, he commanded you to love your neighbor. And not just the easy parts. For if you unconditionally loved only someone easy to love, what really have you done? Nothing. Same as if you only love the easy parts of a person, what have you really done?
Although what we do may not define who we are, it's clear from the Bible that what we do does affect our eternity. Willful sexual sin leads to separation from God.
This should be spoken clearly and with love.